the industrial court . ( 2846 ) . engineering industry . aluminium wire and cable company limited - clerical workers - claim for application thereto of wages increases of a specified agreement . parties : - clerical and administrative workers &apos; union and aluminium wire and cable company limited . terms of reference : - proposed by the trade union . that the wage increases agreed between the engineering and allied employers &apos; federation and the clerical and administrative workers &apos; union on 6th January , 1961 , shall be applied to members of the union employed by aluminium wire and cable company limited , Swansea , with effect from 9th January , 1961 . proposed by the employer . whether the wage increases agreed between the engineering and allied employers &apos; federation and the clerical and administrative workers &apos; union on 6th January , 1961 , should be applied to members of the union employed by aluminium wire and cable company limited , Swansea , with effect from 9th January , 1961 . 1 . the matter was referred to the industrial court for settlement in accordance with the provisions of the industrial courts act , 1919 . the parties were heard in Cardiff on the 9th May , 1961 . 2 . by an agreement reached between the clerical and administrative workers &apos; union ( hereinafter referred to as the union ) , and the engineering employers &apos; federation on the 6th January , 1961 , increases which the federation were prepared to recommend to be paid by member firms to their clerical workers with salaries up to and including &amp;pound;775 per annum in the case of males and &amp;pound;580 in the case of females , as from the 9th January , 1961 , were determined . the said increases are set out in the appendix hereto . the agreement also contained the following clause : - the recommendation is made subject to the understanding that firms may take into account any general increase already given to clerical workers , whether as a result of the national wages agreement reached with the manual workers &apos; union on 21st December , 1960 , or in anticipation of the settlement of this claim . the dispute concerns 83 clerical workers employed by the aluminium wire and cable company limited ( hereinafter referred as the company ) and the union claim that the above increases should be applied to them with effect from the 9th January , 1961 . the matter was first raised on the 20th January , 1961 , when the union having received a report that the company had not implemented the terms of the agreement , wrote to them . the union subsequently sought the assistance of the industrial relations Officer ( Wales ) , under whose chairmanship a meeting took place on the 2nd March , 1961 . the company then stated that they were exempt from the terms of the agreement by reason of a notice issued to each of their clerical workers in their pay packet on the 5th December , 1960 , when certain increases in pay became effective . the matter was thereupon referred to the court for decision . 3 . on behalf of the union it was stated that they had when necessary met the company regarding matters affecting wages and conditions of clerical workers , and whilst the company were not in membership of the engineering employers &apos; federation , there was an understanding that they should follow the engineering industry . in that understanding the union had negotiated with them arrangements for a shorter working week , the salary limits under which clerical workers received payment for overtime and the rota under which Saturday mornings were worked . it was submitted that the terms under which a company could claim exemption from implementing the agreement of the 6th January , 1961 , were clearly understood between the engineering employers &apos; federation and the union ; that the term general increase was understood between them and that increases in salaries consequent on a review of salaries undertaken by the company which took effect from the 3rd October , 1960 , did not constitute a general increase . the fact that a number of the clerical workers concerned had not received any increase at all and the lack of pattern in the increases awarded by the company were indicative of a merit assessment on the company &apos;s valuation of each employee . it was contended that the increases paid on the 5th December , 1960 could not have been paid as a result of the manual workers &apos; settlement , which was agreed more than a fortnight after the increases had been paid , or that the review , which the company stated had taken several months to complete , could have been in anticipation of the settlement of a class for clerical workers which the union had not yet presented to the company . the court &apos;s attention was drawn to the fact that on the 3rd October , 1960 ( the retrospective date to which the company &apos;s increase became effective ) the union had not presented their case to the engineering employers &apos; federation . furthermore , the national wages agreement with the manual workers &apos; union was not reached until the 21st December , 1960 . it was submitted that the clerical workers employed by the company should receive the increases set out in the appendix . the union maintained that previous differences referred to the industrial disputes tribunal under the industrial disputes order , 1951 , which resulted in awards Nos 248 , 813 and 840 in favour of the union , endorsed that view . 4 . on behalf of the company it was stated that whilst they were not members of the engineering and allied employers &apos; south Wales association , it had been their practice to have regard to recommendations of the engineering employers &apos; federation when reviewing salaries towards the end of each year . thus the company had given increases to their clerical workers with effect from the 1st January , 1959 , comparable with increases recommended by the federation in October , 1958 . they had also given increases with effect from the 1st January , 1960 , and a reduction of working hours as from the 2nd May , 1960 , even though the federation had not recommended any salary increases at that time . during the latter half of 1960 , it was stated , the company decided on a major review of salaries of their staff in the course of which they became aware of a claim submitted by the union to the federation in respect of their clerical workers . accordingly , when such employees were advised in December , 1960 , of increases granted ( which were made retrospective to the beginning of October , 1960 ) , the company entered a caveat to cover possible increases which might subsequently be recommended by the federation , notice of which was contained in the letter addressed to each employee at the time . early in January , 1961 , when the company received details of the increases recommended by the federation , comparison with the increases already granted to their clerical workers revealed some differences and any deficiencies were made good as from the 2nd January , 1961 , although the federation &apos;s recommendations did not take effect until a week later . the company had not specifically agreed and had not given any undertaking to the union to follow the engineering industry . it was submitted that increases in salaries granted to all staff when salaries were reviewed were a general increase . the review of salaries was described as a major review as the level of salaries being paid to senior staff having university degrees or other special qualifications was being specially examined , and it was spread over a long period and completed only after it became known that the union were negotiating with the federation in respect of clerical workers . it was also submitted that all the clerical workers concerned had received increases no less than those recommended in the national agreement of the 6th January , 1961 , between the engineering employers &apos; federation and the union . in the company &apos;s views the awards of the industrial disputes tribunal referred to by the union were made in different circumstances and could not be taken as precedents . in conclusion the company submitted that they observed the spirit of all agreements between the engineering employers &apos; federation and the union , and in support of this gave details of the conditions of employment of their staff . 5 . the court , having given careful consideration to the evidence and submissions of the parties , award that , with effect from the 20th January , 1961 , the company shall apply to the clerical workers concerned the wage increases agreed between the engineering employers &apos; federation and the union on the 6th January , 1961 . H Lloyd-Williams , chairman . W Lewis Clarke . G B Thorneycroft . I have submitted precedents over two centuries . we believe those precedents to be valid . may we ask whether you would be good enough further to consider your ruling and indicate on what occasions and under what circumstances it shall apply and whether you will consider the precedents and previous rulings before a new ruling is established ? Mr Speaker : I have said that I will look at what the right hon gentleman put to me and , of course , I will . but I do not propose to say anything else about it , unless I find that my ruling was wrong . Mr Gordon Walker : in the interests of ourselves and our successors , who might be misled , may I suggest that you later give us the reasons which led you to think that these proceedings were not invalidated ? our successors and ourselves might otherwise be misled about what does or does not constitute a House in other circumstances . if your ruling were given just like that , and without reasons , it might be held to go much further than you intend . I fully understand and appreciate your desire not to give reasons in general , but on this occasion you might consider it worth your while to do so . Mr Speaker : if it be thought that there might be any dubiety - that is the word - about the matter , I will say that my ruling applies to nothing at all except to circumstances where the mace is not in the right place and when there is a suspension under standing order no 24 . Sir H Butcher : you have been good enough , Mr Speaker , to say that on behalf of the House you will conduct a certain amount of research into our precedents . if , as a by-product of such research , it is found that in recent years the habit of discussing certain rulings with the chair has increased , may I ask you not to hesitate to say so , so that we may conform to the more orderly methods of our predecessors ? Mr Speaker : I am obliged to the hon member . since I came into the service of the House I have been trying gradually to get round to that position and I have had much help from the House . Mr Denis Howell : on a point of order . would you also take into account , Mr Speaker , the new procedure of the patronage Secretary intervening in our affairs - Mr Speaker : in no circumstances can the hon member have a right to address me about that now . Mr Donnelly : on a point of order . may I venture to suggest that when the Minister of works investigates the microphones , he considers not only new microphones but the possibility of reverting to the pre-war practice of not having microphones , which might help the proceedings of the House generally ? Mr Speaker : I am obliged to the hon member . I am sure that all the technical aspects will be considered , including , I hope , some examination of the microphones which we had before and which seemed to be satisfactory . her majesty the Queen ( return from west Africa ) . the Prime Minister ( Mr Harold Macmillan ) : I beg to move , that an humble address be presented to her majesty , assuring her majesty of the loyal and affectionate welcome of this House to her majesty , on the occasion of her return from her tour of west Africa with his royal highness the Duke of Edinburgh . I am sure that this motion will commend itself to the House . a month ago , on the eve of her majesty &apos;s departure for west Africa , the House joined me in sending her our warmest good wishes for the success of her tour and a safe return . now the Queen is safely back with us , I venture to say that of the many journeys which she and his royal highness have so tirelessly undertaken , none has been crowned with greater success than this . 